SCHWALD, Johannes

Other Events:

• Occupation: Weber (Weaver)

Notes:

Died:
DEATH DATE:
- Died AFTER 2nd marriage - dated 13 May 1902

Johannes married KROPF, Anna Maria 7 May 1872, Sitzenkirch, Kandern, Baden-Wurttemberg, Germany. Anna (daughter of KROPF, Friedrich "Fridolin" and ADOLF, Maria Barbara (Adolph)) was born 30 Dec 1846, Sitzenkirch, Kandern, Baden-Wurttemberg, Germany; died 25 Aug 1890, Sitzenkirch, Kandern, Baden-Wurttemberg, Germany; was buried 27 Aug 1890, Kandern, Loerrach, Baden, Germany. [Group Sheet]

Notes:

Married:
Have cc of marriage certificate
Witness: Johann Friedrich Adolf
Witness: Johann Georg Schwald

1. SCHWALD, Daughter1 Stillborn was born 3 Jul 1872, Sitzenkirch, Kandern, Baden-Wurttemberg, Germany; died 3 Jul 1872, Sitzenkirch, Kandern, Baden-Wurttemberg, Germany.
2. SCHWALD, Daughter2 Stillborn was born 25 May 1873, Sitzenkirch, Kandern, Baden-Wurttemberg, Germany; died 25 May 1873, Sitzenkirch, Kandern, Baden-Wurttemberg, Germany.
3. SCHWALD, Johann Friedrich "Fred" was born 2 Jul 1874, Sitzenkirch, Kandern, Baden-Wurttemberg, Germany; was christened 26 Jul 1874, Sitzenkirch, Kandern, Baden-Wurttemberg, Germany; died 24 Sep 1951, Coeur D'Alene, Kootenai, Idaho; was buried 26 Sep 1951, Forest Cemetery, Coeur D'Alene, Kootenai, Idaho.
4. SCHWALD, Emilie Maria was born 23 Jun 1876, Sitzenkirch, Kandern, Baden-Wurttemberg, Germany; was christened 16 Jul 1876, Kandern, Loerrach, Baden, Germany.
5. SCHWALD, Ernest Friedrich was born 23 Mar 1878, Sitzenkirch, Kandern, Baden-Wurttemberg, Germany; was christened 28 Apr 1878, Kandern, Loerrach, Baden, Germany; died 6 Sep 1878, Sitzenkirch, Kandern, Baden-Wurttemberg, Germany; was buried 8 Sep 1878, Kandern, Loerrach, Baden, Germany.
6. SCHWALD, Reinhard Julius was born 6 Jul 1882, Sitzenkirch, Kandern, Baden-Wurttemberg, Germany; was christened 30 Jul 1882, Kandern, Loerrach, Baden, Germany; died 16 Oct 1902, Sitzenkirch, Kandern, Baden-Wurttemberg, Germany; was buried 19 Oct 1902, Kandern, Loerrach, Baden, Germany.
7. SCHWALD, Ernst Leonhard was born 24 Jul 1888, Sitzenkirch, Kandern, Baden-Wurttemberg, Germany; was christened 19 Aug 1888, Kandern, Loerrach, Baden, Germany.

Johannes married RAHM, Elisabeth 13 May 1902, Kandern, Loerrach, Baden, Germany. Elisabeth (daughter of RAHM, Jeremias and WERNLE, Barbara) was born 2 Nov 1867, Basel, Switzerland. [Group Sheet]

Other Events:

• Occupation: Bauer (Farmer)
• Occupation: Tagloehner (Day-laborer)

Johannes married PFUNDER, Maria Magdalena 10 Jul 1845, Kaltenbach, Baden, Germany. Maria (daughter of PFUNDER, Jacob Friedrich and LAEUGER, Anna Maria) was born 27 Jul 1823, Hofen, Loerrrach, Baden, Germany ; died Aft 1872, Basel, Switzerland. [Group Sheet]

Notes:

2 children born before marriage

Married:
MARRIAGE PLACE (July 10, 1845):
Per D.J. Gudeman:
- The marriage ceremony was performed in Kaltenbach. The little church in Vogelbach was custodian of the vital records of the citizens of Vogelbach, Malsburg, and Kaltenbach.

Friedrich married HOMBERGER, Anna Barbara 17 Feb 1801, Wies, Loerrach, Baden, Germany. Anna (daughter of HOMBERGER, Jacob and LAIS, Anna Barbara) was born 17 Jan 1778, Wies, Loerrach, Baden, Germany; died 3 Feb 1852, Wies, Loerrach, Baden, Germany. [Group Sheet]

Notes:

Dates from Fred Wehrle

From: "dave gudeman"
To: "Janet"
Subject: Re: Schwald lineage
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 08:07:50 -0500

It is true that Friedrich Schwald and Anna Barbara Homberger had two
children before they were married, as is shown on Hanno's web-site.
1, Johann Friedrich Schwald, born in Wies on March 4, 1798. (The father was
shown as Friedrich.)
2. Anna Barbara Schwald, born in Wies on May 4, 1800. (The father was shown
as Friz.)
You will notice that they were both born with the Schwald name, quite unusal
for a child who was born out of wedlock to be given the name of the father
rather the mother. It is obvious that it was no secret who the father was,
and Friedrich and Anna Barbara probably had full intentions of marrying
later. I find it interesting that the two children born before the marriage
were born in Wies, the home of Anna Barbara, whereas the eight children born
after the marriage were born in Fischenberg, the home of Friedrich.
(Johannes (1822) was born in Fischenberg, not in Wies as shown on Hanno's
website.) I missed these two children the first time, probably because it
did not occur to me to check for births before the marriage.
It is curious that Hanno lists the two children born before the marriage,
and the first child born after the marriage, and the last child born; but
fails to show the six children born between 1802 and 1822.
It is true that a Frieddich Schwald, a widower, married a Barbara
Doerflingerin in 1828, as shown on Hanno's website. But this Friedrich was
not the Friedrich who was married to Anna Barbara Homberger, your ancestor.
Anna Barbara did not die until February 3, 1852 in Fischenberg.
Hanno lists over 16,000 names on his web site, and I wonder where he picks
up all this information. He is causing a lot of confusion and damage
because, it appears to me, he is more interested in quantity rather than
quality.

Notes:

http://www.familysearch.org
FRIZ SCHWALD
Spouse: ANNA BARBARA HOMBERGER Family
Marriage: 17 FEB 1801 Evangelisch, Wies, Loerrach, Baden
--------------------------------------------------------------
Messages:
Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record.
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Typ

M936741 1738 - 1833 1189732

Notes:

From: Wehrle
To: Janet
Cc: H.Trurnit
Subject: Re: Fwd: Our Relationship to Dieter
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 09:42:03 +0200

falsch: Jakob Friedrich Pfunder oo Anna Maria Buerger
richtig: Jakob Friedrich Pfunder oo Anna Maria Laeuger !!

Marriage Notes for Johannes Schwald and Maria Magdalena Pfunder:
Per David Gudeman of Wichita, Kansas, in an email dated 3/21/2002:

The marriage record of Johannes Schwald on July 10, 1845, shows that.
1.He was born in Wies on July 27, 1822.
2. He was the son of Friedrich Schwald and Anna Barbara Homberger. (A person named Friedrich was often times shown as Fritz which may looked like Lutz.)
3. At the time of the marriage he was living in Kaltenbach.
4. The marriage ceremony was performed in Kaltenbach. The little church in Vogelbach was custodian of the vital records of the citizens of Vogelbach, Malsburg, and Kaltenbach. For a long time it kept the records also for Marzell, but Marzell later started keeping its own records.
5. He married Maria Magdalena Pfunder, born in Hofen on July 27, 1823.
6. Her parents were Jakob Friedrich Pfunder and Anna Maria (error ...Buerger..correct ...Anna Maria Laeuger).
7. The fathers of both Johannes and Maria Magdalena were deceased at the time of the marriage.

Per David:
I got this information fom a micro- film in the Mormon Church Library which they make available, even to non-members such as me.
I have identified no direct connection (between David's family & Roderick's), but I am confident that there are a few, if we wanted to go back far enough. After all, there are 2 Pfunders and 1 Kropf in my ancestry

Jacob married LAEUGER, Anna Maria 1820, Hofen, Loerrrach, Baden, Germany . Anna (daughter of Living and Living) was born 30 Oct 1793, Weitenau, Loerrach, Freiburg, Baden-Wurttemberg, Germany; died 8 Aug 1875, Germany. [Group Sheet]

Other Events:

• Also Known As: LAEUGER LEUGER

Notes:

familysearch.org

Anna Maria LAEUGER
Spouse: Johann Jacob ROSSKOPF
Marriage: 27 Feb 1809
Hofen, Schopfheim, Loerrach, Baden

From: Wehrle
To: Janet
Cc: Hanno
From: "dave gudeman"
To: "Janet
Subject: Correction
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 21:35:41 -0500

The mother of Maria Magdalena Pfunder, the wife of Johannes Schwald (1822), was Anna Maria Leuger, not Anna Maria Buerger as I previously stated. When Anna Maria married Jakob Friedrich Pfunder in Hofen in 1820, she was the widow of Johann Jacob Rosskopf, the Vogt of Hofen who died on August 6, 1819. Both the record of the death of her first husband in 1819 and the record of her second marriage in 1820 clearly shows that her name was anna Maria Leuger, not Anna Maria Laeuger (Laeuger) as Fred Wehrle states.

Subject: Re: Fwd: Our Relationship to Diete
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 09:42:03 +0200

falsch: Jakob Friedrich Pfunder oo Anna Maria Buerger
richtig: Jakob Friedrich Pfunder oo Anna Maria Laeuger !!

Marriage Notes for Johannes Schwald and Maria Magdalena Pfunder:
Per David Gudeman of Wichita, Kansas, in an email dated 3/21/2002:

The marriage record of Johannes Schwald on July 10, 1845, shows that.
1.He was born in Wies on July 27, 1822.
2. He was the son of Friedrich Schwald and Anna Barbara Homberger. (A person named Friedrich was often times shown as Fritz which may looked like Lutz.)
3. At the time of the marriage he was living in Kaltenbach.
4. The marriage ceremony was performed in Kaltenbach. The little church in Vogelbach was custodian of the vital records of the citizens of Vogelbach, Malsburg, and Kaltenbach. For a long time it kept the records also for Marzell, but Marzell later started keeping its own records.
5. He married Maria Magdalena Pfunder, born in Hofen on July 27, 1823.
6. Her parents were Jakob Friedrich Pfunder and Anna Maria Buerger.
7. The fathers of both Johannes and Maria Magdalena were deceased at the time of the marriage.

Per David:
I got this information fom a micro- film in the Mormon Church Library which they make available, even to non-members such as me.
I have identified no direct connection (between David's family & Roderick's), but I am confident that there are a few, if we wanted to go back far enough. After all, there are 2 Pfunders and 1 Kropf in my ancestry

From: "dave gudeman"
To: "Janet
Subject: Leuger or Laeuger?
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:11:11 -0500

There is some confusion about the correct spelling of the surname of Anna Maria, the mother-in -law of Johannes Schwald (1822). The various spellings of Leuger, Laeuger, and Laeuger (Laeuger and Laeuger are equivalent spellings, as you probably know) were sometimes alternately used.
Anna Maria's father was Fritz (Friedrich) Laeuger and her mother was Anna Maria Laeugerin (Yes, they had the same last names.), as shown on Anna Maria's birth record In Weitenau on October 30, 1793. After Anna Maria's birth, the parents went on to have eight more children from 1799 to1815. In all cases the parents were shown as Laeuger and Laeugerin, except for the birth of their last child in 1815. In that case they slipped a cog and the parents were shown as Friedrich Leuger and Anna Maria Leuger. In 1819, their daughter, Maria (not Anna Maria), had an illegitimate daughter, Maria Katharina, and both Maria and her father, Friedrich, were shown as Leuger.
When Anna Maria (1793) married her first husband, Johann Jacob Rosskopf, in1809, she was shown as Laeugerin and her father was shown as Laeuger. However, when Johann Jacob died in 1819, Anna Maria was shown as Leuger. When she married Johann Georg Pfunder in 1820, she was again shown Leuger.
If you follow the rule of showing a person's name as shown on the birth record, Anna Maria (1793) should be shown as Anna Maria Laeuger, as, indeed, Fred shows it.
The OSB of Weitenau shows something curious. The family page of Anna Maria and her first husband, Johann Jacob Rosskopf, shows Anna Maria (shown as Marie) as Leuger, and her father, Friedrich, as Leuger but her mother, Anna Maria, as Laeuger.
I am beginning to think that those who collect the data for the OSBs are not quite as careful as one would expect them to be.
Incidently, I am about to wind up my research on the Schwald clan, and I have numerous copies of pages from the Mormon Microfilms for which I will have no future use. If you would like to have them, I will be glad to send them to you if you will send me your address.

familysearch.org
Johann Jacob ROSSKOPF
Spouse: Anna Maria LAEUGER
Marriage: 27 Feb 1809
Hofen, Schopfheim, Loer., Baden

Maria Barbara ROSSKOPF
Birth: 7 Jan 1812
Hofen, Schopfheim, Loer., Baden
Father: Johann Jacob ROSSKOPF
Mother: Anna Maria LAEUGER

Anna Maria ROSSKOPF
Birth: 30 Jul 1814
Hofen, Schopfheim, Loer., Baden
Father: Johann Jacob ROSSKOPF
Mother: Anna Maria LAEUGER

Anna Maria ROSSKOPF
Birth: 8 Jun 1817
Hofen, Schopfheim, Loer., Baden
Father: Johann Jacob ROSSKOPF
Mother: Anna Maria LAEUGER

Other Events:

• Also Known As: Johann Georg or Hanns Jerg
• Occupation: Farmer

Notes:

Occupation: Farmer

familysearch.org
Hanns Jerg SCHWALD
Sex: M
Marriage(s):
Spouse: Anna Maria WAGNER
Marriage: 27 Sep 1768
Evangelisch, Wies, Loerrach, Baden

Anna Barbara SCHWALD
Sex: F
Event(s):
Birth: 29 Oct 1778
Fischingen, Loerrach, Baden
Parents:
Father: Johann Georg SCHWALD
Mother: Anna Maria WAGNER

LDS Microfilm Batch number: Dates Source
Call No. Type Printout Call No. Type
M934123 1739-1815 1189428

NOTE: This is the original marriage record of Hans Jerg (Johann Georg) Schwald and Anna Maria Wagnerin as related by David....found in the LDS Microfilm.

-----Original Message-----
> From: dgudeman
> Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 6:52 PM
> To: Roderick Schwald
> Subject: Hans Jerg Schwald
>
> Hans Jerg (Johann Georg) Schwald of Fischenberg married Anna
> Maria Wagnerin of Malsburg on December 27, 1768, in Demburg,
> Baden, Germany.
The parents of Hans Jerg were Hans Jerg
> Schwald (shown as Schwaldin) of Fischenburg and Maria Lenzin
> of Schwand (Elbenschwand), Baden, Germany. Hans Jerg (the
> son) was a farmer. Anna Maria's father, Hans Jacob Wagner,
> was a Nagler, a blacksmith who made nails. The children of
> Hans Jerg and Anna Maria were: 1. Johann Georg, born in
> Fischenberg on June 30, 1769.2. Johann Jacob, born in
> Fischenberg on June 16, 1770.3. Friedrich, born in
> Fischenberg on September 13, 1772, and died on December 19,
> 1839.4. Maria, born in Fischenberg on December 18, 1773.5.
> Simon, born in Fischingberg on April 16, 1775, and died July
> 9, 1834.6. Michael, born in Fischenberg on March 21, 1777.7.
> Anna Barbara, born in Fischenberg on September 29, 1778.8.
> Kunigunda, born in Fischenberg on May 18, 1780.9.
> Friedolinus, born in Fischenberg on October 30, 1781, and
> died in Tegernau (?) on December 12, 1830.10. Matthias, born
> in Fischenberg on August 10, 1784, and died in Sallneck on
> November 28, 1844.11. Anna Maria, born in Fischenberg on
> November 7, 1785.12. A daughter born in Fischenburg on
> September 12, 1788. The child was still born.

Name:
NAME VARIATIONS:
- Hanns Jerg SCHWALD; Marr. record

Johann married WAGNER, Anna Maria 27 Sep 1768, Wies, Loerrach, Baden, Germany. Anna (daughter of WAGNER, Johann "Hans" Jacob and OSSWALD, Barbara) was born 27 Feb 1745, Malsburg, Kaltenbach, Baden, Germany; died 31 Oct 1799, Wies, Loerrach, Baden, Germany. [Group Sheet]

Notes:

Conflicting birth town.

Or...Malsburg, Kaltenbach, Germany

Am using Fred Wehrle's information
Wagner, Anna Maria, <7989>
* : 27 Feb 1745 Malsburg + : 31 Okt 1799 Fischenbe
V: Wagner, Johann Jacob M: Osswald, Barbara

oo 27.09.1768 Tegernau Johann Georg Schwald v.Fischenberg

From: "dave gudeman"
To: "Janet"
Subject: Re: Anna Maria Wagner
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 18:59:26 -0500

It may well be that Hans Jacob and Barbara were married in Vogelbach, but the record of their marriage does not so state. Both Vogelbach and Kaltenbach have churches, and, since Hans Jacob was from Kaltenbach, I felt that the odds favored the Kaltenbach church. Keep in mind that the little church in Vogelbach kept the vital records of both churches, and it may well be that Fred is confusing the place of recording with the place where the ceremony was performed. But surely, Fred must be well familiar with the fact that the Vogelbach church was the custodian of the records for both churches.
Neither does the marriage record reveal that Hans Jacob was a Vogt, which makes me wonder all the more what set of records Fred is working with.
A Vogt is somewhat like a Mayor. A Vogtei is something like an administrative office. The little village of Vogelbach had a stature out of proportion to its size. In addition to the Vogelbach and Kaltenbach churches, Vogelbach was the custodian of the records also for the Marzell church until the latter part of the 18th century, when Marzell started keeping its own records. I have a theory for the elevated position of Vogelbach. The Sausenburg Casthe is across a valley from Vogelbach and, in fact, the ruins can be seen from Vogelbach to this day. I believe that, because of its proximity to the castle, it was assigned the Vogtei centuries ago and, with it, the responibility for keeping the vital records.

Notes:

Married:
MARRIAGE DATE DISCREPANCY:
- 27 Dec 1768; Fred Wehrle, German author and historian

MARRIAGE PLACE DISCREPANCY:
Demberg, Tegernau, Baden, Germany

Am using the information from Fred Wehrle

Other Events:

• Occupation: Schuhmacher

Notes:

From: Wehrle
To: Janet
Subject: Re: Fwd: Our Relationship to Dieter
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 20:47:47 +020

Die vater und mutter von Anna Barbara Homberger: Jacob Homberger
> *19.06.1747 +01.12.1818 oo 22.10.1776 Anna Barbara (Lensin)falsch! Lais
richtig *17.09.1749 aber Lais>
> +22.12.1820.

KINDER von Jacob und Anna Barbara:
>
> 1. Maria Homberger *1777 +1791
> 2. Anna Barbara Homberger *1779 +1852
> 3. Jacob Homberger *1780 +
Johannes * 18.03.1782 + 07.08.1843 xxxxxxxxxx
4. Johann Georg Homberger *1783 +1791
> 5. Matthias Homberger *1786 +(1868) 1861! richtig
> 6. Johann Georg Homberger *(1796) 1791 ! richtig +1867

Jacob married LAIS, Anna Barbara 22 Oct 1776, Tegernau, Loerrach, Baden-Wurttemberg, Germany. Anna was born 17 Sep 1749, Neuenweg, Loerrach, Baden, Germany; died 22 Dec 1820, Wies, Loerrach, Baden, Germany. [Group Sheet]

Notes:

From: Wehrle
To: Janet
Subject: Re: Fwd: Our Relationship to Dieter
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 20:47:47 +020

Die vater und mutter von Anna Barbara Homberger: Jacob Homberger
> *19.06.1747 +01.12.1818 oo 22.10.1776 Anna Barbara (Lensin)falsch! Lais
richtig *17.09.1749 aber Lais>
> +22.12.1820.

KINDER von Jacob und Anna Barbara:
>
> 1. Maria Homberger *1777 +1791
> 2. Anna Barbara Homberger *1779 +1852
> 3. Jacob Homberger *1780 +
Johannes * 18.03.1782 + 07.08.1843 xxxxxxxxxx
4. Johann Georg Homberger *1783 +1791
> 5. Matthias Homberger *1786 +(1868) 1861! richtig
> 6. Johann Georg Homberger *(1796) 1791 ! richtig +1867

Other Events:

• Occupation: Vogtei Vogelbach

Johann married DOEBELIN, Anna Maria 6 Sep 1779, Vogelbach, Loerrach, Baden, Germany. Anna (daughter of DOEBELIN, Fritz and PFUNDER, Maria) was born 19 Oct 1747, Marzell, Loerrach, Baden, Germany; died 16 Mar 1814, Malsburg, Kaltenbach, Baden, Germany. [Group Sheet]

Living — Living. [Group Sheet]