FORSTHUBER, Albert Friedrich

Notes:

1. Per Fred Wehrle Vogelbach/Marzell OSB

2. From: dgudeman
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 10:33 PM

Maria Barbara Schwald (1844) had an illegitimate daughter named Maria Barbara on January 19, 1864, in Kaltenbach.
She had a second illegitimate daughter in Kaltenbach on March 27, 1866, named Ernstina. On July 8, 1866, Johannes Forsthuber of Kaltenbach acknowledged that he was the father of Ernstina (inexplicity, shown as Verena Ernstina).
We can make the reasonable assumption that he was the father also of Maria Barbara (1864).
Johannes Forsthuber and his brother Johann Jacob exchanged favors. Each was a Godfather to illegitimate children fathered by the other. Johann Jacob later married Maria Katharina Lais of Kaltenbach, the mother of his illegitimate child.
On March 28, 1867, Johannes Forsthuber married Maria Barbara Schwald in Kaltenbach. They went on to have five more children, all born in Kaltenbach.
1. Albert--April 3, 1870 (Maria Katharina (Lais) Forsthuber was a Godmother.)
2. Ernst Friedrich--May 8, 1871 ( Jacob Friedrich Forsthuber and Johann Georg Forsthuber, two other brothers, were Godfathers.)
3. Emma--December 3, 1872 (Johann Georg Forsthuber was a Godfather.)
4. Albert Friedrich--May, 30, 1875 (Johann Georg Forsthuber was a Godfather.)
5. Anna Maria--May 26, 1877 (Johann Jacob Forsthuber was a Godfather.)
Maria Barbara (1844) died sometime after the birth of her last child; and Johannes Forsthuber married Maria Katharina Renk of
Kaltenbach (she was 16 years younger) on April 24, 1884.
Ernstina (1866) married Alexander Boetsch of Griesheim on February 24, 1887, in Kaltenbach.
Johannes Forsthuber and Maria Katharina Renk had a daughter named Sopfia in Kaltenbach.

Other Events:

• Occupation: Schuster

Notes:

From: dgudeman
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 10:33 PM
To: Roderick Schwald
Subject: Maria Barbara Schwald (1844)

Maria Barbara Schwald (1844) had an illegitimate daughter named Maria Barbara on January 19, 1864, in Kaltenbach.
She had a second illegitimate daughter in Kaltenbach on March 27, 1866, named Ernstina. On July 8, 1866, Johannes Forsthuber of Kaltenbach acknowledged that he was the father of Ernstina (inexplicity, shown as Verena Ernstina).
We can make the reasonable assumption that he was the father also of Maria Barbara (1864).
Johannes Forsthuber and his brother Johann Jacob exchanged favors. Each was a Godfather to illegitimate children fathered by the other. Johann Jacob later married Maria Katharina Lais of Kaltenbach, the mother of his illegitimate child.
On March 28, 1867, Johannes Forsthuber married Maria Barbara Schwald in Kaltenbach. They went on to have five more children, all born in Kaltenbach.
1. Albert--April 3, 1870 (Maria Katharina (Lais) Forsthuber was a Godmother.)
2. Ernst Friedrich--May 8, 1871 ( Jacob Friedrich Forsthuber and Johann Georg Forsthuber, two other brothers, were Godfathers.)
3. Emma--December 3, 1872 (Johann Georg Forsthuber was a Godfather.)
4. Albert Friedrich--May, 30, 1875 (Johann Georg Forsthuber was a Godfather.)
5. Anna Maria--May 26, 1877 (Johann Jacob Forsthuber was a Godfather.)
Maria Barbara (1844) died sometime after the birth of her last child; and Johannes Forsthuber married Maria Katharina Renk of
Kaltenbach (she was 16 years younger) on April 24, 1884.
Ernstina (1866) married Alexander Boetsch of Griesheim on February 24, 1887, in Kaltenbach.
Johannes Forsthuber and Maria Katharina Renk had a daughter named Sopfia in Kaltenbach.

The father of Karl Friedrich Schwald (1866) was never disclosed. Almost always the father of an illegitimate child was identified; and the father usually later married the mother. It is clear that the Schwald and Forsthuber families were very close. I have a sneaking suspicion that one of the Forsthuber brothers fathered Karl Friedrich (1866), most likely Jacob Friedrich, who to my knowledge, never married. But sneaking suspicions do not count in Genealogy research.

Have Copy of Original Marriage Record from Kaltenbach...from David Gudeman

Johannes married SCHWALD, Maria Barbara 28 Mar 1867, Vogelbach, Loerrach, Baden, Germany. Maria (daughter of SCHWALD, Johannes and PFUNDER, Maria Magdalena) was born 12 May 1844, Hofen, Loerrrach, Baden, Germany ; was christened 10 Jul 1845, Vogelbach, Loerrach, Baden, Germany; died 26 May 1877, Kaltenbach, Baden, Germany; was buried 28 May 1877, Marzell, Loerrach, Baden, Germany. [Group Sheet]

Notes:

Per Fred Wehrle Vogelbach/Marzell OSB

Per Family Search
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/AF/individual_record.asp?recid=51495018&lds=0
Johann FORSTHUBER (AFN: 23K6-NL1) Pedigree

Event(s):
Birth: 1 Jun 1802
Ried
Death: 28 Mar 1844
Kaltenbach, Csfr

Johann married WEISS, Catharina "Katharina" Barbara 25 Mar 1829, Vogelbach, Loerrach, Baden, Germany. Catharina was born 31 Mar 1807, Kaltenbach, Baden, Germany; died 27 Jul 1859, Kaltenbach, Baden, Germany. [Group Sheet]

Notes:

Per Fred Wehrle Vogelbach/Marzell OSB

Per Family Search
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/AF/individual_record.asp?recid=51495018&lds=0
Johann FORSTHUBER (AFN: 23K6-NL1) Pedigree

Notes:

1. Fred Wehrle Vogelbach/Marzell OSB

2. www.familysearch.org
Johann FORSTHUBER (AFN: 23K6-NL1)

Other Events:

• Occupation: Bauer (Farmer)
• Occupation: Tagloehner (Day-laborer)

Johannes married PFUNDER, Maria Magdalena 10 Jul 1845, Kaltenbach, Baden, Germany. Maria (daughter of PFUNDER, Jacob Friedrich and LAEUGER, Anna Maria) was born 27 Jul 1823, Hofen, Loerrrach, Baden, Germany ; died Aft 1872, Basel, Switzerland. [Group Sheet]

Notes:

2 children born before marriage

Married:
MARRIAGE PLACE (July 10, 1845):
Per D.J. Gudeman:
- The marriage ceremony was performed in Kaltenbach. The little church in Vogelbach was custodian of the vital records of the citizens of Vogelbach, Malsburg, and Kaltenbach.

Friedrich married HOMBERGER, Anna Barbara 17 Feb 1801, Wies, Loerrach, Baden, Germany. Anna (daughter of HOMBERGER, Jacob and LAIS, Anna Barbara) was born 17 Jan 1778, Wies, Loerrach, Baden, Germany; died 3 Feb 1852, Wies, Loerrach, Baden, Germany. [Group Sheet]

Notes:

Dates from Fred Wehrle

From: "dave gudeman"
To: "Janet"
Subject: Re: Schwald lineage
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 08:07:50 -0500

It is true that Friedrich Schwald and Anna Barbara Homberger had two
children before they were married, as is shown on Hanno's web-site.
1, Johann Friedrich Schwald, born in Wies on March 4, 1798. (The father was
shown as Friedrich.)
2. Anna Barbara Schwald, born in Wies on May 4, 1800. (The father was shown
as Friz.)
You will notice that they were both born with the Schwald name, quite unusal
for a child who was born out of wedlock to be given the name of the father
rather the mother. It is obvious that it was no secret who the father was,
and Friedrich and Anna Barbara probably had full intentions of marrying
later. I find it interesting that the two children born before the marriage
were born in Wies, the home of Anna Barbara, whereas the eight children born
after the marriage were born in Fischenberg, the home of Friedrich.
(Johannes (1822) was born in Fischenberg, not in Wies as shown on Hanno's
website.) I missed these two children the first time, probably because it
did not occur to me to check for births before the marriage.
It is curious that Hanno lists the two children born before the marriage,
and the first child born after the marriage, and the last child born; but
fails to show the six children born between 1802 and 1822.
It is true that a Frieddich Schwald, a widower, married a Barbara
Doerflingerin in 1828, as shown on Hanno's website. But this Friedrich was
not the Friedrich who was married to Anna Barbara Homberger, your ancestor.
Anna Barbara did not die until February 3, 1852 in Fischenberg.
Hanno lists over 16,000 names on his web site, and I wonder where he picks
up all this information. He is causing a lot of confusion and damage
because, it appears to me, he is more interested in quantity rather than
quality.

Notes:

http://www.familysearch.org
FRIZ SCHWALD
Spouse: ANNA BARBARA HOMBERGER Family
Marriage: 17 FEB 1801 Evangelisch, Wies, Loerrach, Baden
--------------------------------------------------------------
Messages:
Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record.
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Typ

M936741 1738 - 1833 1189732

Notes:

From: Wehrle
To: Janet
Cc: H.Trurnit
Subject: Re: Fwd: Our Relationship to Dieter
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 09:42:03 +0200

falsch: Jakob Friedrich Pfunder oo Anna Maria Buerger
richtig: Jakob Friedrich Pfunder oo Anna Maria Laeuger !!

Marriage Notes for Johannes Schwald and Maria Magdalena Pfunder:
Per David Gudeman of Wichita, Kansas, in an email dated 3/21/2002:

The marriage record of Johannes Schwald on July 10, 1845, shows that.
1.He was born in Wies on July 27, 1822.
2. He was the son of Friedrich Schwald and Anna Barbara Homberger. (A person named Friedrich was often times shown as Fritz which may looked like Lutz.)
3. At the time of the marriage he was living in Kaltenbach.
4. The marriage ceremony was performed in Kaltenbach. The little church in Vogelbach was custodian of the vital records of the citizens of Vogelbach, Malsburg, and Kaltenbach. For a long time it kept the records also for Marzell, but Marzell later started keeping its own records.
5. He married Maria Magdalena Pfunder, born in Hofen on July 27, 1823.
6. Her parents were Jakob Friedrich Pfunder and Anna Maria (error ...Buerger..correct ...Anna Maria Laeuger).
7. The fathers of both Johannes and Maria Magdalena were deceased at the time of the marriage.

Per David:
I got this information fom a micro- film in the Mormon Church Library which they make available, even to non-members such as me.
I have identified no direct connection (between David's family & Roderick's), but I am confident that there are a few, if we wanted to go back far enough. After all, there are 2 Pfunders and 1 Kropf in my ancestry

Jacob married LAEUGER, Anna Maria 1820, Hofen, Loerrrach, Baden, Germany . Anna (daughter of Living and Living) was born 30 Oct 1793, Weitenau, Loerrach, Freiburg, Baden-Wurttemberg, Germany; died 8 Aug 1875, Germany. [Group Sheet]

Other Events:

• Also Known As: LAEUGER LEUGER

Notes:

familysearch.org

Anna Maria LAEUGER
Spouse: Johann Jacob ROSSKOPF
Marriage: 27 Feb 1809
Hofen, Schopfheim, Loerrach, Baden

From: Wehrle
To: Janet
Cc: Hanno
From: "dave gudeman"
To: "Janet
Subject: Correction
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 21:35:41 -0500

The mother of Maria Magdalena Pfunder, the wife of Johannes Schwald (1822), was Anna Maria Leuger, not Anna Maria Buerger as I previously stated. When Anna Maria married Jakob Friedrich Pfunder in Hofen in 1820, she was the widow of Johann Jacob Rosskopf, the Vogt of Hofen who died on August 6, 1819. Both the record of the death of her first husband in 1819 and the record of her second marriage in 1820 clearly shows that her name was anna Maria Leuger, not Anna Maria Laeuger (Laeuger) as Fred Wehrle states.

Subject: Re: Fwd: Our Relationship to Diete
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 09:42:03 +0200

falsch: Jakob Friedrich Pfunder oo Anna Maria Buerger
richtig: Jakob Friedrich Pfunder oo Anna Maria Laeuger !!

Marriage Notes for Johannes Schwald and Maria Magdalena Pfunder:
Per David Gudeman of Wichita, Kansas, in an email dated 3/21/2002:

The marriage record of Johannes Schwald on July 10, 1845, shows that.
1.He was born in Wies on July 27, 1822.
2. He was the son of Friedrich Schwald and Anna Barbara Homberger. (A person named Friedrich was often times shown as Fritz which may looked like Lutz.)
3. At the time of the marriage he was living in Kaltenbach.
4. The marriage ceremony was performed in Kaltenbach. The little church in Vogelbach was custodian of the vital records of the citizens of Vogelbach, Malsburg, and Kaltenbach. For a long time it kept the records also for Marzell, but Marzell later started keeping its own records.
5. He married Maria Magdalena Pfunder, born in Hofen on July 27, 1823.
6. Her parents were Jakob Friedrich Pfunder and Anna Maria Buerger.
7. The fathers of both Johannes and Maria Magdalena were deceased at the time of the marriage.

Per David:
I got this information fom a micro- film in the Mormon Church Library which they make available, even to non-members such as me.
I have identified no direct connection (between David's family & Roderick's), but I am confident that there are a few, if we wanted to go back far enough. After all, there are 2 Pfunders and 1 Kropf in my ancestry

From: "dave gudeman"
To: "Janet
Subject: Leuger or Laeuger?
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:11:11 -0500

There is some confusion about the correct spelling of the surname of Anna Maria, the mother-in -law of Johannes Schwald (1822). The various spellings of Leuger, Laeuger, and Laeuger (Laeuger and Laeuger are equivalent spellings, as you probably know) were sometimes alternately used.
Anna Maria's father was Fritz (Friedrich) Laeuger and her mother was Anna Maria Laeugerin (Yes, they had the same last names.), as shown on Anna Maria's birth record In Weitenau on October 30, 1793. After Anna Maria's birth, the parents went on to have eight more children from 1799 to1815. In all cases the parents were shown as Laeuger and Laeugerin, except for the birth of their last child in 1815. In that case they slipped a cog and the parents were shown as Friedrich Leuger and Anna Maria Leuger. In 1819, their daughter, Maria (not Anna Maria), had an illegitimate daughter, Maria Katharina, and both Maria and her father, Friedrich, were shown as Leuger.
When Anna Maria (1793) married her first husband, Johann Jacob Rosskopf, in1809, she was shown as Laeugerin and her father was shown as Laeuger. However, when Johann Jacob died in 1819, Anna Maria was shown as Leuger. When she married Johann Georg Pfunder in 1820, she was again shown Leuger.
If you follow the rule of showing a person's name as shown on the birth record, Anna Maria (1793) should be shown as Anna Maria Laeuger, as, indeed, Fred shows it.
The OSB of Weitenau shows something curious. The family page of Anna Maria and her first husband, Johann Jacob Rosskopf, shows Anna Maria (shown as Marie) as Leuger, and her father, Friedrich, as Leuger but her mother, Anna Maria, as Laeuger.
I am beginning to think that those who collect the data for the OSBs are not quite as careful as one would expect them to be.
Incidently, I am about to wind up my research on the Schwald clan, and I have numerous copies of pages from the Mormon Microfilms for which I will have no future use. If you would like to have them, I will be glad to send them to you if you will send me your address.

familysearch.org
Johann Jacob ROSSKOPF
Spouse: Anna Maria LAEUGER
Marriage: 27 Feb 1809
Hofen, Schopfheim, Loer., Baden

Maria Barbara ROSSKOPF
Birth: 7 Jan 1812
Hofen, Schopfheim, Loer., Baden
Father: Johann Jacob ROSSKOPF
Mother: Anna Maria LAEUGER

Anna Maria ROSSKOPF
Birth: 30 Jul 1814
Hofen, Schopfheim, Loer., Baden
Father: Johann Jacob ROSSKOPF
Mother: Anna Maria LAEUGER

Anna Maria ROSSKOPF
Birth: 8 Jun 1817
Hofen, Schopfheim, Loer., Baden
Father: Johann Jacob ROSSKOPF
Mother: Anna Maria LAEUGER