SCHWALD, Anna Maria

Notes:

1. Per Fred Wehrle Vogelbach/Marzell OSB pg. 439

ID: I15399
Name: Simon SCHWALD
Surname: Schwald
Given Name: Simon
Sex: M
Birth: 16 Apr 1775 in Fischenberg, L?rrach, Baden, Germany
Death: 9 Jun 1834 in Malsburg, Baden, Germany
_UID: D3A66A629C0406498D71511EFE14D7830D59
Change Date: 14 Oct 2002 at 19:05:44

Father: Johann Gerorg SCHWALD b: 10 Sep 1743 in Fischenberg, L?rrach, Baden, Germany
Mother: Anna Maria WAGNER b: 27 Feb 1745 in Vogelbach, Baden, Germany

Marriage 1 Catharina LANGENDORF b: 12 Jun 1770 in Malsburg, Baden, Germany
Married: 17 Apr 1796 in Vogelbach, L?rrach, Baden, Germany
Children
Anna Catharina SCHWALD b: 18 Oct 1796 in Malsburg, Baden, Germany
Verena Barbara SCHWALD b: 8 Dec 1798 in Malsburg, Baden, Germany
Anna Catharina SCHWALD b: 2 Nov 1800 in Malsburg, Baden, Germany
Anna Maria SCHWALD b: 13 Dec 1801 in Malsburg, Baden, Germany
Anna Maria SCHWALD b: 15 May 1803 in Malsburg, Baden, Germany
Johannes SCHWALD b: 18 Jan 1806 in Malsburg, Baden, Germany
Simon SCHWALD b: 8 Sep 1808 in Malsburg, Baden, Germany
Friedrich SCHWALD b: 15 Mar 1812 in Malsburg, Baden, Germany
Catharina SCHWALD b: 15 Mar 1812 in Malsburg, Baden, Germany

Notes:

1. Per Fred Wehrle Vogelbach/Marzell OSB pg. 439


Source email: See father's notes:
LDS Microfilm:

Batch number: Dates Source
Call No. Type Printout Call No. Type
M936741 1738-1833 1189732
Film NONE
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
SIMON SCHWALD
Sex: M
Marriage(s):
Spouse: CATHARINA
LANGENDORF
Marriage: 17 Apr 1796
Evangelisch, Vogelbach, Loerrach, Baden

http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=27jul44&id=I15399 by Karen Ulrich

ID: I15399
Name: Simon SCHWALD
Surname: Schwald
Given Name: Simon
Sex: M
Birth: 16 Apr 1775 in Fischenberg, L?rrach, Baden, Germany
Death: 9 Jun 1834 in Malsburg, Baden, Germany
_UID: D3A66A629C0406498D71511EFE14D7830D59
Change Date: 14 Oct 2002 at 19:05:44

Father: Johann Gerorg SCHWALD b: 10 Sep 1743 in Fischenberg, L?rrach, Baden, Germany
Mother: Anna Maria WAGNER b: 27 Feb 1745 in Vogelbach, Baden, Germany

Marriage 1 Catharina LANGENDORF b: 12 Jun 1770 in Malsburg, Baden, Germany
Married: 17 Apr 1796 in Vogelbach, L?rrach, Baden, Germany
Children
Anna Catharina SCHWALD b: 18 Oct 1796 in Malsburg, Baden, Germany
Verena Barbara SCHWALD b: 8 Dec 1798 in Malsburg, Baden, Germany
Anna Catharina SCHWALD b: 2 Nov 1800 in Malsburg, Baden, Germany
Anna Maria SCHWALD b: 13 Dec 1801 in Malsburg, Baden, Germany
Anna Maria SCHWALD b: 15 May 1803 in Malsburg, Baden, Germany
Johannes SCHWALD b: 18 Jan 1806 in Malsburg, Baden, Germany
Simon SCHWALD b: 8 Sep 1808 in Malsburg, Baden, Germany
Friedrich SCHWALD b: 15 Mar 1812 in Malsburg, Baden, Germany
Catharina SCHWALD b: 15 Mar 1812 in Malsburg, Baden, Germany

Simon married LANGENDORF, Catharina 17 Apr 1796, Vogelbach, Loerrach, Baden, Germany. Catharina was born 12 Jul 1770, Malsburg, Kaltenbach, Baden, Germany; died 30 Apr 1824, Malsburg, Kaltenbach, Baden, Germany. [Group Sheet]

Notes:

1. Per Fred Wehrle Vogelbach/Marzell OSB pg. 439

http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=27jul44&id=I15399 by Karen Ulrich

ID: I15399
Name: Simon SCHWALD
Surname: Schwald
Given Name: Simon
Sex: M
Birth: 16 Apr 1775 in Fischenberg, L?rrach, Baden, Germany
Death: 9 Jun 1834 in Malsburg, Baden, Germany
_UID: D3A66A629C0406498D71511EFE14D7830D59
Change Date: 14 Oct 2002 at 19:05:44

Father: Johann Gerorg SCHWALD b: 10 Sep 1743 in Fischenberg, L?rrach, Baden, Germany
Mother: Anna Maria WAGNER b: 27 Feb 1745 in Vogelbach, Baden, Germany

Marriage 1 Catharina LANGENDORF b: 12 Jun 1770 in Malsburg, Baden, Germany
Married: 17 Apr 1796 in Vogelbach, L?rrach, Baden, Germany
Children
Anna Catharina SCHWALD b: 18 Oct 1796 in Malsburg, Baden, Germany
Verena Barbara SCHWALD b: 8 Dec 1798 in Malsburg, Baden, Germany
Anna Catharina SCHWALD b: 2 Nov 1800 in Malsburg, Baden, Germany
Anna Maria SCHWALD b: 13 Dec 1801 in Malsburg, Baden, Germany
Anna Maria SCHWALD b: 15 May 1803 in Malsburg, Baden, Germany
Johannes SCHWALD b: 18 Jan 1806 in Malsburg, Baden, Germany
Simon SCHWALD b: 8 Sep 1808 in Malsburg, Baden, Germany
Friedrich SCHWALD b: 15 Mar 1812 in Malsburg, Baden, Germany
Catharina SCHWALD b: 15 Mar 1812 in Malsburg, Baden, Germany

Notes:

Source email: See father's notes:
LDS Microfilm:
Batch number: Dates Source
Call No. Type Printout Call No. Type
M936741 1738-1833 1189732
SIMON SCHWALD
Spouse: CATHARINA
LANGENDORF
Marriage: 17 Apr 1796
Evangelisch, Vogelbach, Loerrach, Baden

Other Events:

• Also Known As: Johann Georg or Hanns Jerg
• Occupation: Farmer

Notes:

Occupation: Farmer

familysearch.org
Hanns Jerg SCHWALD
Sex: M
Marriage(s):
Spouse: Anna Maria WAGNER
Marriage: 27 Sep 1768
Evangelisch, Wies, Loerrach, Baden

Anna Barbara SCHWALD
Sex: F
Event(s):
Birth: 29 Oct 1778
Fischingen, Loerrach, Baden
Parents:
Father: Johann Georg SCHWALD
Mother: Anna Maria WAGNER

LDS Microfilm Batch number: Dates Source
Call No. Type Printout Call No. Type
M934123 1739-1815 1189428

NOTE: This is the original marriage record of Hans Jerg (Johann Georg) Schwald and Anna Maria Wagnerin as related by David....found in the LDS Microfilm.

-----Original Message-----
> From: dgudeman
> Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 6:52 PM
> To: Roderick Schwald
> Subject: Hans Jerg Schwald
>
> Hans Jerg (Johann Georg) Schwald of Fischenberg married Anna
> Maria Wagnerin of Malsburg on December 27, 1768, in Demburg,
> Baden, Germany.
The parents of Hans Jerg were Hans Jerg
> Schwald (shown as Schwaldin) of Fischenburg and Maria Lenzin
> of Schwand (Elbenschwand), Baden, Germany. Hans Jerg (the
> son) was a farmer. Anna Maria's father, Hans Jacob Wagner,
> was a Nagler, a blacksmith who made nails. The children of
> Hans Jerg and Anna Maria were: 1. Johann Georg, born in
> Fischenberg on June 30, 1769.2. Johann Jacob, born in
> Fischenberg on June 16, 1770.3. Friedrich, born in
> Fischenberg on September 13, 1772, and died on December 19,
> 1839.4. Maria, born in Fischenberg on December 18, 1773.5.
> Simon, born in Fischingberg on April 16, 1775, and died July
> 9, 1834.6. Michael, born in Fischenberg on March 21, 1777.7.
> Anna Barbara, born in Fischenberg on September 29, 1778.8.
> Kunigunda, born in Fischenberg on May 18, 1780.9.
> Friedolinus, born in Fischenberg on October 30, 1781, and
> died in Tegernau (?) on December 12, 1830.10. Matthias, born
> in Fischenberg on August 10, 1784, and died in Sallneck on
> November 28, 1844.11. Anna Maria, born in Fischenberg on
> November 7, 1785.12. A daughter born in Fischenburg on
> September 12, 1788. The child was still born.

Name:
NAME VARIATIONS:
- Hanns Jerg SCHWALD; Marr. record

Johann married WAGNER, Anna Maria 27 Sep 1768, Wies, Loerrach, Baden, Germany. Anna (daughter of WAGNER, Johann "Hans" Jacob and OSSWALD, Barbara) was born 27 Feb 1745, Malsburg, Kaltenbach, Baden, Germany; died 31 Oct 1799, Wies, Loerrach, Baden, Germany. [Group Sheet]

Notes:

Conflicting birth town.

Or...Malsburg, Kaltenbach, Germany

Am using Fred Wehrle's information
Wagner, Anna Maria, <7989>
* : 27 Feb 1745 Malsburg + : 31 Okt 1799 Fischenbe
V: Wagner, Johann Jacob M: Osswald, Barbara

oo 27.09.1768 Tegernau Johann Georg Schwald v.Fischenberg

From: "dave gudeman"
To: "Janet"
Subject: Re: Anna Maria Wagner
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 18:59:26 -0500

It may well be that Hans Jacob and Barbara were married in Vogelbach, but the record of their marriage does not so state. Both Vogelbach and Kaltenbach have churches, and, since Hans Jacob was from Kaltenbach, I felt that the odds favored the Kaltenbach church. Keep in mind that the little church in Vogelbach kept the vital records of both churches, and it may well be that Fred is confusing the place of recording with the place where the ceremony was performed. But surely, Fred must be well familiar with the fact that the Vogelbach church was the custodian of the records for both churches.
Neither does the marriage record reveal that Hans Jacob was a Vogt, which makes me wonder all the more what set of records Fred is working with.
A Vogt is somewhat like a Mayor. A Vogtei is something like an administrative office. The little village of Vogelbach had a stature out of proportion to its size. In addition to the Vogelbach and Kaltenbach churches, Vogelbach was the custodian of the records also for the Marzell church until the latter part of the 18th century, when Marzell started keeping its own records. I have a theory for the elevated position of Vogelbach. The Sausenburg Casthe is across a valley from Vogelbach and, in fact, the ruins can be seen from Vogelbach to this day. I believe that, because of its proximity to the castle, it was assigned the Vogtei centuries ago and, with it, the responibility for keeping the vital records.

Notes:

Married:
MARRIAGE DATE DISCREPANCY:
- 27 Dec 1768; Fred Wehrle, German author and historian

MARRIAGE PLACE DISCREPANCY:
Demberg, Tegernau, Baden, Germany

Am using the information from Fred Wehrle

Notes:

Per LDS site:
Johann Georg SCHWALD
Sex: M

Marriage(s):
Spouse: Maria LENZ
Marriage: 17 Sep 1738
Evangelisch, Wies, Loerrach, Baden
-----Original Message-----
From: christof schwald
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 7:13 PM
To: Roderick Schwald
Cc: Janet
Subject: Re: I am Back

Hi Roderick,
I'm glad to hear good news about your wife doing well and I have news for you:

Look in the old mail and find Johann Georg Schwald
He was born in 1715 in Gersbach and married Maria Lentz from Schwand in 1737. They lived in Wies-Fischenberg (You've been there the day we met first) and had eight children:
Magdalena * 1738 Schwand
Anna * 1741 Schwand + 1752
Maria * 1742 Fischenberg + 1742
Johann Georg *1743 Fischenberg (your line)
Johann Jacob * 1745 Fischenberg
Maria * 1746 Fischenberg
Margaretha * 1749 Fischenberg
Johann Friedrich * 1751 Fischenberg (my line)

The parents of Johann Georg Schwald were:
Michael Schwald, * 1685 Neuenweg, + 1745 Gersbach
married in 1711 in Gersbach
Anna Kneusslin, * 1682 Gersbach, + 1759 Gersbach, daughter of Hans Kneusslin and Anna Meyer in Gersbach

The parents of Michael Schwald were:
Bernhard Schwald, * 1655 Neuenweg, + ?
married 1677 in Neuenweg
Catharina Bleickner, *1656 in Neuenweg, daughter of Jacob Bleickner and Verena Zeh from Neuenweg

The parents of Bernhard Schwald were:
Jacob Schwald, *1614 in Neuenweg, + 1686 in Neuenweg
married 1643 in Neuenweg
Maria Kiefer, *1613 in Neuenweg, + 1677 in Neuenweg
They had twelve children!

I think Werner Schwalds line goes from one of this children. May be all Schwald lines go from this Jacob Schwald. There are no church books before 1600, so we can't go on now! I think it's ok here. Not everybody has a Stammbaum to 1613 but we have!

Another interesting thing is, how Michael Schwald came to Gersbach wich is about two days-walks from Neuenweg. Gersbach is like Neuenweg in The high black-forrest. I think that he had to go there as a boy in the summertime to keep care for the cows of other farmers. Poor people with many children used to give some children away in summer to other farmers. So they didn't have to feed them this time. Often those "cowboys" went all summer to the same farm and often married in the village or even in the family of the farmer.
Michaels son Johann Georg went back to the area his father was born. May be he found his wife when he joined a wedding of a cousin or an other festival.

Now you can complete your Stammbaum with 12 generations! Wish you a good work! Christof

From: dgudeman
Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2002 3:49 PM
To: Roderick Schwald
Subject: Johann Georg Schwald -Maria Lenzin family
Per Christof:
Look in the old mail and find Johann Georg Schwald
He was born in 1715 in Gersbach and married Maria Lentz from Schwand in 1737. They lived in Wies-Fischenberg (You've been there the day we met first) and had eight children:
Magdalena * 1738 Schwand
Anna * 1741 Schwand + 1752
Maria * 1742 Fischenberg + 1742
Johann Georg *1743 Fischenberg (your line)
Johann Jacob * 1745 Fischenberg
Maria * 1746 Fischenberg
Margaretha * 1749 Fischenberg
Johann Friedrich * 1751 Fischenberg (my line)

The parents of Johann Georg Schwald were:
Michael Schwald, * 1685 Neuenweg, + 1745 Gersbach
married in 1711 in Gersbach
Anna Kneusslin, * 1682 Gersbach, + 1759 Gersbach, daughter of Hans Kneusslin and Anna Meyer in Gersbach

The parents of Michael Schwald were:
Bernhard Schwald, * 1655 Neuenweg, + ?
married 1677 in Neuenweg
Catharina Bleickner, *1656 in Neuenweg, daughter of Jacob Bleickner and Verena Zeh from Neuenweg

The parents of Bernhard Schwald were:
Jacob Schwald, *1614 in Neuenweg, + 1686 in Neuenweg
married 1643 in Neuenweg
Maria Kiefer, *1613 in Neuenweg, + 1677 in Neuenweg
They had twelve children!

I think Werner Schwalds line goes from one of this children. May be all Schwald lines go from this Jacob Schwald. There are no church books before 1600, so we can't go on now! I think it's ok here. Not everybody has a Stammbaum to 1613 but we have!

Another interesting thing is, how Michael Schwald came to Gersbach wich is about two days-walks from Neuenweg. Gersbach is like Neuenweg in The high black-forrest. I think that he had to go there as a boy in the summertime to keep care for the cows of other farmers. Poor people with many children used to give some children away in summer to other farmers. So they didn't have to feed them this time. Often those "cowboys" went all summer to the same farm and often married in the village or even in the family of the farmer.
Michaels son Johann Georg went back to the area his father was born. May be he found his wife when he joined a wedding of a cousin or an other festival.

per email:
Johann Georg Schwald of Grenzach married Maria Lenzin of Schwand in Wies on September 17, 1738. The father of Johann Georg was Michel Schwaldin of Grenzach (shown as Greszach) and an unnamed mother. The father of Maria was Michel Lenzin and an unnamed mother. The children of Johann Georg and Maria were:

1. Maria, born in Fischenberg on September 20, 1742. (The father was shown as Hans Jerg.)
2. Johann Georg, born in Fischenberg on September 10, 1743. (The father is shown as Hans Jerg.)
3. Johann Jacob, born in Fischenberg on January 11, 1744. (The father was shown as Johann Georg.)
4. Maria, born in Fischenberg on August 6, 1746. (The father was shown as Johann Georg.)
5. Margaretha, born in Fischenberg on February 20, 1748. (The father was shown as Johann Georg.)
6. Friedrich, born in Fischenberg on May, 24, 1750. (The father was shown as Hans Georg.)

All data are from roll #1189732.

I suspect that other children were born between 1738 and 1742 in, perhaps, Grenzach or Schwand. It was highly unusual for a couple to wait four years before having their first child, and it was even not at all uncommon for the bride to be pregnant at the time of the marriage.

What micro-film rolls have you ordered?

I have some reservations about Grenzach. It is spelled in an unusual way on the marriage record and it is a long way from Fischenberg and Schwand. Althoug there is no other name spelled even close to it, further research needs to verify it.

NOTE: LAST BORN SON...IS CHRISTOF'S ANCESTOR...CHRISTOF'S BRANCH STARTS HERE

Johann Georg SCHWALD
Sex: M

Marriage(s):
Spouse: Maria LENZ
Marriage: 17 Sep 1738
Evangelisch, Wies, Loerrach, Baden
Batch number: Dates Source Call No. Type Printout Call No. Type
M936741 1738-1833 1189732

Birth:
BIRTH DATE DISCREPANCIES:
- 29 Apr 1715; Bap. record (ancestry.com)

Name:
NAME VARIATIONS:
- Hanß [Hanss] Jerg SCHWALD; Bap. record (ancestry.com)

Johann married LENTZ, Maria 17 Sep 1738, Wies, Loerrach, Baden, Germany. Maria was born Abt 1717, Wies, Loerrach, Baden, Germany. [Group Sheet]

Notes:

Per LDS Site:
Johann Georg SCHWALD
Sex: M

Marriage(s):
Spouse: Maria LENZ
Marriage: 17 Sep 1738
Evangelisch, Wies, Loerrach, Baden

Possible her record??
Maria LENTZ (AFN: 104R-NRS) Pedigree
Sex: F Family

Event(s):
Birth: 28 Sep 1717
Sallneck, Loerrach, Baden, Germany

Parents:
Father: Frederich Aka Fritz LENTZ (AFN: 104R-PCH) Family
Mother: Anna TREFZER (AFN: 104R
Maria LENTZ (AFN: 104R-NRS) Pedigree
Sex: F

Submitter(s):
KAREN M. URICK Microfilm: NONE
109 WEST MAIN STREET
BOX 609
HART MI Submission: AF93-102752
USA 49420


Ortssippenbuch of Tegernau

Other Events:

• Occupation: Bauer, Vogt, ?Nagler

Notes:

Fred Wehrle Vogelbach/Marzell OSB pg. 503

From: "dave gudeman"
To: "Janet Schwald"
Subject: Anna Maria Wagner
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 06:01:04 -0500

As Fred Wehrle states, the mother of Anna Maria Wagner (Johann Georg Schwald's wife) was Barbara Osswaldin. She was a daughter of Simon Osswald of Kaltenbach. Hans Jacob Wagner of Malsburg (spelled Mahlsburg) and Barbara Osswaldin were married on June 16, 1744, probably in Kaltenbach, since Malsburg has no church. Fred emphatically states that Johann Jakob Wagner was a farmer, not a Nagler. I wonder where he picked up this information. On the marriage record of Johann George Schwald and Anna Maria Wagner in 1764, it very clearly states Hans Jacob Wagner was a Nagler. I found no mention that he was a farmer.

Occupation: Nagler, blacksmith who made nails

-----Original Message-----
> From: dgudeman
> Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 6:52 PM
> To: Roderick Schwald
> Subject: Hans Jerg Schwald


Anna Maria's father, Hans Jacob Wagner,
> was a Nagler, a blacksmith who made nails.

Per Rod's Website:
(Anna Maria Wagner (daughter of Hans Jacob Wagner and Anna Barbara Lensin)14. She married Johann "Hans" Georg Schwald on 27 September 1768 in Demberg, Germany14, son of Johann Georg Schwald and Maria Lenzin.

More About Anna Maria Wagner and Johann "Hans" Georg Schwald:
Marriage: 27 September 1768, Demberg, Germany.

Children of Anna Maria Wagner and Johann "Hans" Georg Schwald are:
Johann Georg Schwald, b. 30 June 1769, Fischenberg, Germany.
Johann Jacob Schwald, b. 16 June 1770, Fischenberg, Germany.
+Friedrich "Fritz or Friz" Schwald, b. 13 September 1772, Fischenberg, Germany, d. 19 December 1839.)

Hans Jacob Wagner. He married Anna Barbara Lensin.

Notes for Hans Jacob Wagner:
Occupation was a Nagler (a Blacksmith who made nails)

Children of Hans Jacob Wagner and Anna Barbara Lensin are:
+Anna Maria Wagner

Corrected:
From: Wehrle
To: Janet
Cc: H.Trurnit
Subject: Re: Fwd: Our Relationship to Dieter
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 09:42:03 +0200

falsch: Johann Jakob Wagner oo Anna Barbara Lensin
richtig: Johann Jakob Wagner oo 16.06.1744 Vogelbach Barbara Osswald !!
er war nicht Nagler, sondern Bauer in Malsburg und Vogt der Vogt
Vogelbach

From: "dave gudeman"
To: "Janet Schwald"
Subject: Anna Barbara Lensin
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 09:21:45

Anna Barbara Lensin should be removed until the true mother can be established. Wehrle contends that she was Barbara Osswald, but I have some reservations. He emphatically states that the father was a farmer, not a blacksmith; whereas, the marriage record of Johann Georg Schwald to Anna Maria Wagnerin in 1768 very clearly shows that her father was "Hans Jacob Wagner a Nagler in Malhsburg". The marriage took place in Demburg.

Fred Wehrle's List-3~12.wps
0 0 Wagner, Johann Jacob, Vogt <7951>
* : 11 Okt 1717 Malsburg + : 31 Jul 1802 Malsbu
V: Wagner, Johannes M: Hafner, Verena
oo: 1) 16 Jun 1744 Vogelbach ?2059?
0 0 Osswald, Barbara, <546
* : 1725 Kaltenbachuvw + : 5 Mar 1785 Malsbu
V: Osswald Simon M: Wagner, An

KINDER:
1. Wagner, Anna Maria, * 27 Feb 1745+ 1799 <7989>
2. Wagner, Johannes, * 21 Feb 1746+ 1748 <7990>
3. Wagner, Verena, * 9 Apr 1747+ 1775 <7991>
4. Wagner, Barbara, * 28 Feb 1749+ 1750 <7992>
5. Wagner, Simon, * 18 Sep 1750+ 1795 <7993>
6. Wagner, Johann Jacob, Vogt * 4 Feb 1753+ 1825 <7994>
7. Wagner, Kunigunde, * 16 Sep 1758+ 1775 <7995>
8. Wagner, Friedrich, Gerichter * 27 Dez 1766+ 1838 <7996>

From: "dave gudeman"
To: "Janet"
Subject: Re: Anna Maria Wagner
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 18:59:26 -0500

It may well be that Hans Jacob and Barbara were married in Vogelbach, but the record of their marriage does not so state. Both Vogelbach and Kaltenbach have churches, and, since Hans Jacob was from Kaltenbach, I felt that the odds favored the Kaltenbach church. Keep in mind that the little church in Vogelbach kept the vital records of both churches, and it may well be that Fred is confusing the place of recording with the place where the ceremony was performed. But surely, Fred must be well familiar with the fact that the Vogelbach church was the custodian of the records for both churches.
Neither does the marriage record reveal that Hans Jacob was a Vogt,
which makes me wonder all the more what set of records Fred is working with.
A Vogt is somewhat like a Mayor. A Vogtei is something like an administrative office.
The little village of Vogelbach had a stature out of proportion to its size. In addition to the
Vogelbach and Kaltenbach churches, Vogelbach was the custodian of the records also for the Marzell church until
the latter part of the 18th century, when Marzell started keeping its own records. I have a theory for the elevated
position of Vogelbach. The Sausenburg Casthe is across a valley from Vogelbach and, in fact, the ruins can be seen
from Vogelbach to this day. I believe that, because of its proximity to the castle, it was assigned the Vogtei
centuries ago and, with it, the responibility for keeping
the vital records.

Johann married OSSWALD, Barbara 16 Jun 1744, Vogelbach, Loerrach, Baden, Germany. Barbara (daughter of OSSWALD, Simon and WAGNER, Anna) was born 1725, Kaltenbach, Baden, Germany; died 5 Mar 1785, Malsburg, Kaltenbach, Baden, Germany. [Group Sheet]

Notes:

Per Rod's Website:
(Anna Maria Wagner (daughter of Hans Jacob Wagner and Anna Barbara Lensin)14. She married Johann "Hans" Georg Schwald on 27 September 1768 in Demberg, Germany14,
son of Johann Georg Schwald and Maria Lenzin.

More About Anna Maria Wagner and Johann "Hans" Georg Schwald:
Marriage: 27 September 1768, Demberg, Germany.

Children of Anna Maria Wagner and Johann "Hans" Georg Schwald are:
Johann Georg Schwald, b. 30 June 1769, Fischenberg, Germany.
Johann Jacob Schwald, b. 16 June 1770, Fischenberg, Germany.
+Friedrich "Fritz or Friz" Schwald, b. 13 September 1772, Fischenberg, Germany, d. 19 December 1839.)

Hans Jacob Wagner. He married Anna Barbara Lensin.

Notes for Hans Jacob Wagner:
Occupation was a Nagler (a Blacksmith who made nails)

Children of Hans Jacob Wagner and Anna Barbara Lensin are:
+Anna Maria Wagner

Corrected:
From: Wehrle
To: Janet
Cc: H.Trurnit
Subject: Re: Fwd: Our Relationship to Dieter
From: "dave gudeman"
To: "Janet
Subject: Anna Maria Wagner
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 06:01:04 -0500

As Fred Wehrle states, the mother of Anna Maria Wagner (Johann Georg Schwald's wife) was Barbara Osswaldin. She was a daughter of Simon Osswald of Kaltenbach. Hans Jacob Wagner of Malsburg (spelled Mahlsburg) and Barbara Osswaldin were married on June 16, 1744, probably in Kaltenbach, since Malsburg has no church. Fred emphatically states that Johann Jakob Wagner was a farmer, not a Nagler. I wonder where he picked up this information. On the marriage record of Johann George Schwald and Anna Maria Wagner in 1764, it very clearly states Hans Jacob Wagner was a Nagler. I found no mention that he was a farmer.

Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 09:42:03 +0200

falsch: Johann Jakob Wagner oo Anna Barbara Lensin
richtig: Johann Jakob Wagner oo 16.06.1744 Vogelbach Barbara Osswald !!
er war nicht Nagler, sondern Bauer in Malsburg und Vogt der Vogt
Vogelbach

Per Fred Wehrle's list 3~12.wps
0 0 Wagner, Johann Jacob, Vogt <7951>
* : 11 Okt 1717 Malsburg + : 31 Jul 1802 Malsbu
V: Wagner, Johannes M: Hafner, Vere

oo: 1) 16 Jun 1744 Vogelbach ?2059?
0 0 Osswald, Barbara, <546
* : 1725 Kaltenbachuvw + : 5 Mar 1785 Malsbu
V: Osswald Simon M: Wagner, An

KINDER:
1. Wagner, Anna Maria, * 27 Feb 1745+ 1799 <7989>
2. Wagner, Johannes, * 21 Feb 1746+ 1748 <7990>
3. Wagner, Verena, * 9 Apr 1747+ 1775 <7991>
4. Wagner, Barbara, * 28 Feb 1749+ 1750 <7992>
5. Wagner, Simon, * 18 Sep 1750+ 1795 <7993>
6. Wagner, Johann Jacob, Vogt * 4 Feb 1753+ 1825 <7994>
7. Wagner, Kunigunde, * 16 Sep 1758+ 1775 <7995>
8. Wagner, Friedrich, Gerichter * 27 Dez 1766+ 1838 <7996>

From: "dave gudeman"
To: "Janet"
Subject: Re: Anna Maria Wagner
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 18:59:26 -0500

It may well be that Hans Jacob and Barbara were married in Vogelbach, but the record of their marriage does not so state. Both Vogelbach and Kaltenbach have churches, and, since Hans Jacob was from Kaltenbach, I felt that the odds favored the Kaltenbach church. Keep in mind that the little church in Vogelbach kept the vital records of both churches, and it may well be that Fred is confusing the place of recording with the place where the ceremony was performed. But surely, Fred must be well familiar with the fact that the Vogelbach church was the custodian of the records for both churches.
Neither does the marriage record reveal that Hans Jacob was a Vogt, which makes me wonder all the more what set of records Fred is working with.
A Vogt is somewhat like a Mayor. A Vogtei is something like an administrative office. The little village of Vogelbach had a stature out of proportion to its size. In addition to the Vogelbach and Kaltenbach churches, Vogelbach was the custodian of the records also for the Marzell church until the latter part of the 18th century, when Marzell started keeping its own records. I have a theory for the elevated position of Vogelbach. The Sausenburg Casthe is across a valley from Vogelbach and, in fact, the ruins can be seen from Vogelbach to this day. I believe that, because of its proximity to the castle, it was assigned the Vogtei centuries ago and, with it, the responibility for keeping the vital records.

From: "dave gudeman"
To: "Janet
Subject: Anna Maria Wagner
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 06:01:04 -0500

As Fred Wehrle states, the mother of Anna Maria Wagner (Johann Georg Schwald's wife) was Barbara Osswaldin. She was a daughter of Simon Osswald of Kaltenbach. Hans Jacob Wagner of Malsburg (spelled Mahlsburg) and Barbara Osswaldin were married on June 16, 1744, probably in Kaltenbach, since Malsburg has no church. Fred emphatically states that Johann Jakob Wagner was a farmer, not a Nagler. I wonder where he picked up this information. On the marriage record of Johann George Schwald and Anna Maria Wagner in 1764, it very clearly states Hans Jacob Wagner was a Nagler. I found no mention that he was a farmer.